eWallet for Mac, ListPro for iPhone

My first draft of this was about four pages long. After giving it a lot of thought, I took another whack at it. I’ll try to get straight to the point in this version. I’m not going to sugar coat things or pad my comments with biz-speak. I’m just going to give you the info you need in plain English.

ListPro for iPhone and eWallet for Mac are not done yet. I’ve made some guesses about when they’ll be done but, frankly, they’re guesses. The reality is that we won’t release them until they meet the standards of quality we’ve set for ourselves. We WILL release them (we always finish what we start) but it will be when they are ready and not before.

In fact, this is how we’ve always developed software. The only difference is that we pre-announced these two products. Before this we never announced anything until it was out the door. These announcements were a mistake and I place the blame firmly on my own shoulders. I jumped the gun because I was so excited about these. (I’m STILL excited about them.)

I read every email about this. I read every frustrated comment on the blog. And I respond. I’m acutely aware that my decision to pre-announce these products has frustrated some people. I’m not exaggerating when I say that I think about this in bed at night. We aren’t just sitting around laughing this stuff off.

But no matter how hard it is for me to not release this stuff yet, I will not compromise on quality. I also won’t hack the products down to get them out sooner. If I can’t give you the features you need then I’m not going to waste your time. Until we have the very best product with the right features, I won’t release.

Does this mean some folks will give up and move to a different product while they are waiting? Sure, and we don’t blame them. If that’s what they need to do then that’s what they need to do. We’re not asking anyone to do us any personal favors. We might like a lot of you folks and you might like us, but you need to make the decisions that are right for you.

eWallet for Mac and ListPro for iPhone are coming. When we release them they are going to rock. I’m sorry that I gave the OK to announce that they are coming and thus set unrealistic expectations about when they’d come out. I’m not going to make any further predictions except to say that we will release them.

If you choose to use something else in the meantime, that’s fine. But when we do release these products, I encourage you to give them a try. See if they are better than what you are using, and if they are, switch back. I’m confident that you’ll find them to be the very best in their class.

This entry was posted in General on by .

About Marc

I'm the product manager here at Ilium Software. My responsibilities include designing how our software works, overseeing the development, and coordinating testing.

38 thoughts on “eWallet for Mac, ListPro for iPhone

  1. Mark

    I’ve both developed software and managed it’s development and I can completely understand the position you’re in. I appreciate the commitment to quality and the update.

  2. Dean Roberts

    I really don’t know why you took the time to write this? This was all stated before. Your position is well understood and appreciated by most.

    Any further reference to these products should be based on release information or progress.

    People who visit this site and read/post to the blog are, for the most part, loyal customers!

    In addition, most of us are adults and would appreciate some type of progress report and time line for release. It is understood the projections are just that and delays could/should be expected.

    You leave me with the question… is June still a possibility for eWallet for MAC? I would rather know that it’s been pushed off.

    You will not please everyone, and I’m sure that’s understood, however, a projection (guess)/progress report for your followers is a reasonable request.

    What is your projection on eWallet for MAC?

  3. Paul H

    Obviously, despite various release date commitments (end of 2008, then June 2009), the Mac version of eWallet was never seen as a priority. No matter how high Ilium’s commitment to quality, it just doesn’t take 12 months to bring an application of this nature to market if any reasonable effort is being directed at the project.

    Customers who paid money based on your commitments really aren’t interested in the ‘understanding’ of users who clearly have no urgent need for the overdue software. Hopefully these weightless platitudes are not blinding you to the growing antipathy.

    Are you offering refunds to customers who purchased eWallet based on your commitment to provide a Mac version by the end of 2008?

  4. Whitney Roberts

    Marc,

    Thanks for the post, but I have to agree with Dean’s post… I’m not really sure what the point of this post was other than to restate what is already known.

    Truth be told, you sound a bit frustrated and defensive… I think most of us have resigned ourselves to it being availalbe “whenever” and appreciate the updates that were telling the story as it unfolded – for good or bad.

    After reading this post, I’m now left to wonder if it will be 2 more months or 2 more years. I’m sure it will come out, but I am now less enthused about ilium products with such a hard-lined posture by the company.

    I think we are all aware that this takes time – a lot of it – I don’t think I could make anything remotely like eWallet in a year and I admit that up front, but for those of us who are paying customers, this kind of post just doesn’t “sound good”.

  5. Pingback: Ilium Shares The Latest on eWallet for Mac & ListPro for iPhone — Just Another iPhone Blog

  6. John

    Very, very disappointing news. (eWallet for MAC)

    It sounds like this is more of a resource issue and not a we will release it when it is ready issue. Maybe there just isn’t enough resources working on this product. I understand it was originally outsourced and then brought back in house. I wonder if you had to start from scratch because the outsourced worked was not something you could work with. I really doubt this will be out any time soon. I have already moved on to another List manager and probably would not bother getting ListPro anyway. I have been a customer of both eWallet and ListPro for years on other platforms. PocketPC, SmartPhone, and iPhone now minus the ListPro. I was really anticipating eWallet for MAC. The only reason why I still run Windows is for eWallet and Quicken. I have been waiting for the new MAC Quicken and eWallet, but both companies keep pushing it back and delaying my total move to MAC. This is not good news at all.

  7. Yan

    Any chance eWallet for Android is already in the works?

    Dying to migrate my passwords from HTC Wing to G1…

  8. Ed Leighton-Dick

    I completely understand and sympathize with your position – I’ve had some bad experiences with outsourcing myself. You’re doing the right thing by bringing the development back in-house, and even if it takes longer, it will be worth it to have a product of the quality we’ve come to expect from Ilium.

  9. Jan Martin

    ListPro for Palm was awesome. Am I willing to wait for a quality ListPro app for my iPod Touch? You betcha!!!

  10. Best DJ Perth

    Don’t worry, you did nothing wrong by pre-announcing the product. Only then people wait for it. I am also waiting for it, knowing very well that it will have the best features.

  11. Edwin

    I look forward to the release of ListPro on iPhone. I’m a ListPro user on the Palm but recently switched to the iPhone and really miss ListPro.

  12. John

    Dean Roberts said “What is your projection on eWallet for MAC?”

    What part of “I’m not going to make any further predictions except to say that we will release them.” didn’t you understand?

  13. Dean Roberts

    @John
    I did not understand the part of ilium leaving us hanging out to dry on the June expectations. If they failed once again, and are not able to meet their projected time line of June, then they could at least state that.

    In addition, if you comprehended my entire post, you would have understood that I have positioned “most” of us to be adults here and that we can handle the delays and disappointments but would rather share in the development process and expected time lines.

    I ask once again!

    What is the projection on eWallet for MAC?

  14. John

    Dean Richards said “but would rather share in the development process and expected time lines.”

    Well, since the developers have chosen NOT to share the “development process” and “expected lead times” and has CLEARLY stated as such, I’d say you’re pretty much out of luck.

    They certainly do NOT owe you ANYTHING other than working software delivered to you when you pay for it.

  15. Dean Roberts

    John said “I have already moved on to another List manager and probably would not bother getting ListPro anyway”

    I agree John, you should probably move on…

  16. Bill H.

    Marc:

    Here is what I would like to know—

    Give us an update as to the process of getting ListPro ready. You have stated in the past that you have had a working model on the iPhone. What are the issues you are dealing with? What are the features that are causing the delay? What is the process involved in moving the program to the iPhone platform? What new features might be able to be added to the program, and what features are potentially at risk? Is it in beta yet, and if not, what needs to be done internally in order ofr you to release it to beta? In general, give us an update on the process, and do the same for the eWallet for Mac ap.

    The frustration that many of us, including myself, have had lately is the lack of communication in regards to ListPro for iPhone and eWallet for Mac. While it would be nice to know whan it might be relleased, I can understand your not wanting to put out a date. What has made your company so great in the past has been your communicating with us.
    To go over a week from posting you would have an update on ListPro to the actual post is frustrating.

    I have moved to another list manager, but would jump back to ListPro in a minute.

  17. Tejas Parab

    Hi,

    As a fellow iphone developer myself, I have to say, I am really looking forward to Listpro myself. The application on Palm is really good, I hope I can reach a place where I would be able to build a similar app some day.

    -Tejas

  18. TimB

    First, Ilium’s choice to move forward with a ListPro iPhone version at all was a good choice in my opinion. I have used Microsoft products exclusively since 1980 – MSDOS, MSOFFICE, WINDOWS, WIN MOBILE, Pocket PC, PDAs, etc, etc. I’m a road-warrior, power-user business owner. I’ve never used Apple or Mac products, not even an iPod.

    However, when I actually got an iPhone in my hand and experienced the ease of navigating of the device and the thoughtfulness to useablility – I switched the same day. I still can’t believe it myself. I switched regardless of poor battery life, no keyboard, inability to tether as a modem, lack of native MSOffice support and lack of ListPro – even though I use ListPro daily (more than 15,000 entries). I waited a long time for Windows Mobile to evolve, but it’s still its same old institutional, sterile self.

    My point is developing for this platform was a smart move. I don’t know how many more people there are like myself, but sometimes you don’t mind what you sacrifice in order to gain somewhere else. I will use the ListPro desktop version for now and use some junior-“my first list maker” app for iPhone. I will buy “iListPro” the day it is released!!

    BTW, on my iPhone, I’m using WritePad/PhatWare because of the handwriting recognition feature and I use Jott to get voice-to-text data into my iPhone. I then can email the notes daily/weekly to my PC and copy/paste the info into my PC/desktop version of ListPro. I would continue to use these apps even ListPro on the iPhone.

    I’m using ListMonger on the iPhone as my list manager because it’s the only one that supports hierarchy of notes. I also use some Nevermore services for keeping data and also Mindjet Mindmanager for mind mapping.

    Marketability/Business Engine note:
    —————————————————
    If you want ListPro to rise quickly above the other so-called list makers, consider this: in addition to having the only truly rich feature set, make it the only list manager that offers extensive interoperability with other applications for iPhone, PCs, websites and general life management.

    For example, I’m mentioning these other programs above in the event that others are also using them and Ilium may want to build in interoperability with these other applications. For example, Jott has a feature that allows voice-to-text text to be sent to Facebook, Google Calendar, etc. Imagine now that you can “Jott”, or voice-to-text, your next list item and it is delivered to your ListPro list. Imagine that users of ListMonger can “easily” import their lists to ListPro. Etc, Etc. That makes it much easier for users to migrate to your product and away from all the other so-called list managers. And the interoperability will not be offered in any other competitors package.

    The bonus features can be added later. I’m anxious for ANY level of ListPro support on my iPhone… even if it’s just a ListPro reader right now (because I’m using the desktop version and importing from other programs/services on the iPhone). I have many lists that are static, just knowledgebase type info and I would like to carry that data with me until the day actual editing is available on the iPhone.

    BTW, I’m available for beta testing tomorrow :)

  19. TimB

    @TimB:

    oooops “… I also use some Nevermore services for keeping data a…” should be “… Evernote services …”

  20. PatG

    I have been using ewallet for several years and would not expect anything but the best in software. I appreciate the honesty and will wait for the final products. Anything else is secondary.

    Thanks….

  21. Tom

    Disappointing, and not in any way “the info you need to hear in plain English”. There is nothing in your update that in any way leaves me feeling informed about the development process of ewallet for mac- there are some excellent suggestions above about the kind of details you could give out to keep your users feeling informed. I’m taking up your suggestion to switch and would want a refund except that the initial cost of the software is nothing compared to the wasted effort inputting data and struggling to find out when ewallet for mac will be available. Good luck!

  22. Dale R.

    I have e-wallet (which I have had for years, & use a lot & like it), but today I bought an iPhone. As soon as available, I need it. Will I be able to transfer my info from current windows mobile to the iPhone? Thank you for your timely response.

  23. Singh

    Fair enough. It is better to have a perfect product rather than getting a bad feedback for a buggy product. Do you have a preview of Listpro for iPhone?

  24. Daniel D

    I agree with your position but you should at least give us more information. Any mature business person understands that estimates, budgets, forecasts, are not exact and delays happen, but it is a good business practice to estimate a release date or a time line or at least a progress report. At this point as much as I appreciate your commitment to quality, I am not sure if I want to wait and unknown amount of time, a few months maybe but not another year.

  25. Cheryl Mackenzie

    Disappointing news, this is not being given priority, again Mac users are the poor relations, I am sick of being told that there are only Windows applications and software available!
    It is impossible to take so long if you give this product priority
    it sounds as if there are not sufficient resources or time being spent on this item.I need a wallet for a Mac, I bought ewallet on the promise of one coming!

  26. George Littlejohn

    I have always liked ListPro, but after switching to the iPhone, I had to have something that would let me replicate the functionality. I finally settled on a combination of EverNote and Remember the Milk (RTM). I am pretty happy with it.

    I really can’t wait to see ListPro, but I am not sure I will take the time to change back. This is one of the risks, I guess, in business and should be a good subject for a business blog somewhere.

    Can’t wait to see ListPro for the iPhone. Not sure if it will make much difference now.

  27. Michael Wallack

    What about the updates and fixes to the desktop version of ListPro that were discussed very shortly after the current version was originally released?

  28. Tom

    I have to voice my frustration and disappointment. I purchased the iPhone eWallet app and a upgrade for an older Windows version. This was based on your commitment to release a Mac version in 2008.

    I had previously moved away from your product because it was not cross platform. I love your product and would love to use it on all my machines.

    At this point I have to agree with those who have asked for just development updates, not excuses.

  29. Evert

    [edited by webmaster]

    We always welcome dissenting views and strong opinions but we won’t allow advertisements for competing products.

  30. Joe

    I use ListPro daily and loved having it available on my PDA. 3 weeks ago my PDA died and I bought an iPhone. Haven’t found any good solution to replacing the many lists with diverse functions that I have on ListPro. Can’t wait to have ListPro on my iPhone, keep us up to date and please make it available soon for the iPhone.

  31. Jeff

    Thanks for the update. I for one am glad you announced that you are working on eWallet for Mac. I had to buy a new laptop just now, and I was hesitant to get a MacBook because I rely so much on eWallet. Although with Parallels I can (I hope!) get it to work inside a Windows VM, it is not as elegant as a native Mac install. So knowing that there is a Mac version in the works made me feel better about moving from a Windows laptop to a MacBook,

  32. Richard

    While I too am disappointed I know that ListPro is a unique and quality product. I’ll be anxious to try out the Iphone version when it does come out.
    I haven’t found anything out there for Iphone that can stand up to Listpro.
    I currently use Ewallet on my Ipod Touch. It’s good and the Mac version will make it even better.
    Thanks for the great products.

  33. Marc Post author

    JEREMY WRITES:
    Just curious. Is there an OSX desktop version of eWallet so I don’t have to boot Parallels to sync my iPhone eWallet?

    MARC WRITES:
    Not yet but we are working on it.

    PAUL H WROTE:
    Almost a year after Ilium Software launched eWallet in Apple’s App Store, and after too many failed promises, Ilium has still not provided a Mac sync app as originally advertised. The company seems satisfied with the Windows slice of the sales pie and sees no pressing need to accommodate Mac users. Apparently Ilium does not have the necessary expertise to develop the promised Mac desktop sync application in-house and is not prepared to dedicate sufficient resources to outsource the project in a timely manner in order to meet its previously stated commitments. Ilium has now belatedly removed all references to Mac compatibility in its App Store listing. However closing the barn door after the horse has escaped may well prove fruitless on a number of fronts.

    The many Mac users who purchased eWallet as originally advertised (ie ‘Mac sync capability by December 2008′, revised in 2009 to ‘Mac sync capability coming soon’) do have several options in venting their dissatisfaction.

    When Apple took several weeks to approve eWallet’s entry into the App Store last July, Ilium was very effective in rallying vocal support/criticism among the Mac centric websites to push forward the eWallet approval process. Disenchanted customers can be equally effective if they begin contacting those same websites who championed Ilium’s cause in mid 2008 (TUAW, Macworld, MacNN, AppleInsider, etc) reminding them of their editorial support and asking them to now follow up on Ilium’s failed promises to the Mac community.

    Ilium is not unique in having misled App Store customers by deliberately advertising a capability it later reneged in providing. Many of you will know that misleading sales of this nature are in direct violation of consumer laws in virtually every country where Apple operates its App Store. Having corresponded with Apple on this issue, they advise that they are aware of the problems (with false advertising) and are deciding how to best resolve the issue as it pertains to companies like Ilium. As Apple has no refund mechanism, and no plans for one at present, that could entail delisting the companies concerned until they meet the original sale obligations. This would prove most effective with companies like Ilium who feel they can happily continue profiting from the Windows segment of the App Store market after knowingly misleading Mac customers. One might reasonably conclude that faced with the prospect of being delisted, and thereby losing sales on all their other apps as well, priorities within Ilium might quickly be redirected from developing further iPhone apps to fulfilling the promised capabilities of its current offerings.

    Obviously the more paying customers who make their displeasure known, the quicker Apple will act decisively on this issue. Mac users will likely have noted that, in its advertising and promotional material for the iPhone on the Apple website (ie Apps for Getting Things Done), Apple is blatantly directing iPhone users to another security password app that does have the promised sync capability — suggesting the growing customer dissatisfaction has not gone unseen. Please note that I have deliberately not mentioned their recommended app as my intention here is to push for an Ilium solution, not drive customers elsewhere.

    The ever likeable Marc (Ilium’s public face on their blog) has done an admirable job trying to mitigate Ilium’s responsibility and jolly along the faithful. Unfortunately this has now reached the point where immediate corrective action is necessary. Not regrets, not apologies, not excuses and not further delays. Ilium took money for a product it has yet to deliver, and almost a year on, that is indefensible.

    As a I doubt this post will remain long on the Ilium blog, it is being posted on all Mac user boards and I invite anyone affected by this problem to repost the content as they please.

    @Paul H: And I’m sure that, just as we’ve never censored your comments on our blog, you will do us the return courtesy of telling us the names of the sites you are posting your manifesto so that we may reply with our side of the story? Thanks!

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